Carl J. Cox 13:24

I love this, I absolutely love this, I love the concept behind this and helping to understand the personal interactions, even with a really large company, if we don’t gain trust one customer at a time, they will not adopt these new systems, they will not gain confidence with this. But the results speak spoke for themselves. Right? You did learn you grew tremendously and it has helped put you in a position where even today, right, you know, Papa John’s has had such an excessive run. So I want to be careful with this right? Because I don’t want to give anything that’s that’s proprietary. But let’s talk a little bit about maybe some other now moving into your consulting business that you have here today and helping out organizations with give me some concepts that where you’ve taken that same concept of, Hey, we were going to measure something big but you had you wanted to go smaller, right to create the big changes. Can you give us an example of some of you worked with where you had to work through that some of those same challenges and what obstacles Do you have to overcome to get to there then?

Arjun Sen 14:31

So to me, I think in a lot of the work what you do and I do is somewhat similar there’s an overlap is anytime with any brand. We just look at at the very beginning. What is your actual customer or consumer valuation is the equity that you have with your customer when you go to sleep tonight will define your success tomorrow. And then You start pushing by saying what are the true potentials? And once you look at potential, it’s a very simple discussion he asked you called. So where do you want your business to be? And you’re a smart person, then the coolest part of what I do is I don’t find all the answers, I asked the questions. And then I asked you so called, this is where you are, this is where you want to go, what are the barriers? What stops you? And then the cool question to ask is, knowing some of these barriers will happen. What plans do you have to overcome that? Because without a plan ahead of time, every problem becomes a crisis. I’ll give you a totally random example. My wife works for United Airlines. She works odd hours. So my request to her is, every time when she is done working, whether it is 12 o’clock or one o’clock, I would like I request her when she gets into the car to call me. I tell her, I love you, I want you to be safe. But can you please put the GPS on with traffic? Because when she has, she’s somewhat tired. I don’t want her to worry about ahead of time, some traffic at the road, because late night, if there’s a construction for you get stranded for an hour. So having that plan ahead, every time is very important. And then the fun part is, in this journey, we always come up with a one Domino, the first domino, once you touch that everything else falls in place. I give an example of a private school in Denver, quite Aspen Academic, amazing school, I fell in love with them because they have best practices from schools all over the world weekly. So my wife and myself, we pretended that we have a five year old we went and attended their open house. And the presentation was boring. It was a two hour presentation talked about three legged stools, and I just didn’t get it. So I offered the founder by saying hey, I want to help you because you are doing something amazing. And we came out with a four line story. result is the enrollment for a private school that was 74% is that a dangerous level because anything below 75 you’re losing money 75 to 80 is breakeven over 80 you start making money. So right now they are at 96% enrollment, and the brandstory Now visualize if anyone all of you are listening even if you don’t have a child is you have a five year old or a four year old. You come to the presentation, Arjun introduces the founder as the following. Christina Scholar used to work for this conforming school producing triangular circular square inch centers to she quit because she felt is a bigger purpose in life. Center three, she was looking at this beautiful Colorado sunset looking at the aspen trees and realize that each tree or each leaf oscillate at its own frequency, but they are connected a common roots. sentence for she said that is what the vision of my school Aspen Academic is. All our kids will be connected by common values. They’ll be better community leaders, family leaders, leaders of the world. But each gets an opportunity to blossom and be the best they can be prisoner scholar. What is so much fun is every first Monday if I’m in town, I go there parents leave this hand gesture, then what will feel good is we created a Nike logo that gets through visually into the parents hearts. And that’s it. So I really feel for every brand. It’s very important to pause, understand what your goals are, what are the barriers in this case was the communication and then find the first domino in this case was find the one story. And again going back to what you have been emphasizing all through is at the end of the day it is the KPIs 74% enrollment was a business killer.

And then the message has to be delivered to each parent one at a time them doing the hand gesture, then you get to 96% and now the school has opened a new business which takes the concept of the school which is a second flourishing business again, four lines one story changed everything.

Carl J. Cox 19:49

I love what you said there I had a an experience of working with another. This was a charter school based in the Dallas area and They talked about their most important thing to increase enrollment was the on site visit. And what was interesting about is they weren’t tracking it at that point of time. And you just share with me that is the most you could argue is the most important part is getting the buy in, of what you are about what is your vision, and I, what you did is taking div parts as simple clear story, connecting the world around them to the school to the kid to the parent, right? You connect at all for those different pieces. And then you had a visual, right, you know, that the actual we’re actively demonstrating? to portray it, that’s, that’s brilliant, you know, I’m going around that and, and, and, and then obviously, you have to live that. Right. So one thing is talking about it, then you have to live it. So how, give an example maybe go back to school? How do you get that so we’re living and it’s an embodiment of we are going to behave and act this way on a consistent basis.

Arjun Sen 21:09

So here’s something it’s not my idea. I learned from Glenn Hurst, the was our president at Papa John’s, and then he moved on to went entrepreneurial. He told me and taught me that you need to stay humble, which means every week, you must be a paid customer in your own business, and your competition. So think in this case, if I tried to act like this, no all consultant I would have gone in given some cool strategies, it wouldn’t have worked. Okay. So what advice made me and my wife be the parent. And that’s the part where ZenMango we have everything is based on we are humans feeling business is based on four or eight words. be human, think human, feel human, then automatically, you’ll be acting human. Now, here’s the challenge, I will give every one listening. You have in your home, most proudly a guest bedroom. When was the last time you slept or napped on that bed? I didn’t, we had a bed for seven years. Finally, one day, I was taking a nap to realize how uncomfortable it was. I called all my friends who have been there they all were polite. Nice, okay. Eight years, people who came to my home, I gave them a crappy bed to sleep on because I never tested it myself. So please, to request you. One. If you have a guest bedroom, please take a nap on that. And that way, you know whether that’s the couch, or where do you want to offer to others. And secondly, on a serious note, please be a customer in your own business. If you are running a school, please be the parent because that’s the only way you can feel where the pain points are. It’s not an intellectual discussion. It is a feeling discussion, because we are all in the film business. Love that.

Carl J. Cox 23:22

What a great way of twisting it. I was just thinking as I had some guests over this past weekend of asking that, then that honest question is I appreciated. I appreciate you bringing that up. So let’s move now to the personal side of bakery. You had an interesting story of you were doing extraordinarily well in the corporate world. And growing and you had a realization one day that you’re not sure for you. This was the right thing to do. Can you share with me? Why you made a decision to start ZenMango and change? change what you how you wanted to make a difference in your own personal home in life?

Arjun Sen 24:07

Yeah, I just get embarrassed talking about it. It was the day after 911 I was sitting with my daughter I realized I didn’t know her. I realized each one of us have 24 hours in a day. How we choose to spend it is totally our personal individual choice. I realized in this whole pursuit of climbing faster in the corporate world. There’s no other way to say it. I was stealing time from my daughter. And she said What can she do? She cannot even fire me. Okay, so to me that was the day what I realized was if I could do one thing, right? I wanted to be a dad first. I quit cold turkey, no plans. And after that consulting just emerged in that journey. And you know when you talk cohort measures. What I learned was, there are so many measures we have on the business side. But we don’t put these measures on the relationship side. I realized, as my daughter was going through middle school, to high school, that I used to make cookies for her before her finals. As she was in her junior year, I did the math, that there were six more cookies left. And that changed me. I felt if I can make six cookies for my daughter before she goes to the world beyond, that better be special. And those KPIs in personal life, once I started finding, I started finding more higher level of self satisfaction, pleasure, like whatever you want to talk about is because relationship, KPIs are so incredibly important. Like I found this coolest thing that I didn’t know existed and you being a cool dad must be experiencing this is that from school when my daughter came back at exactly 410. If I could have the most amazing food ready for her, she would throw the bag start eating, of course, with Dad, you don’t have to clean hands, because you know, tigers and tiger cubs don’t clean hands, wash the hands. Nowadays we do. Then she would say, guess what, dad, and for five minutes, she will open up and tell me every secret in her life. To me, my daughter is 27 years old 26 going on 27. Those 415 are still very special to me. And I’m so glad I took that chance. Now, of course, life is all about balancing. But again, my personal request is please find some KPIs in your personal life, in relationships with kiddos, with family with friends. And that I think, will really give the higher level of satisfaction in life.

Carl J. Cox 27:08

Do I mean that’s that’s, I think that’s wonderful and beautiful advice, Arjun? You know, and I get to imagine your your relationship with your daughter today is real and alive, right? Because of the investments you put in it. In the past years, is that fair to say? Hmm, okay. I remember somebody told me one time before that. You can invest your time and your kids, you’re going to pay for it one time or another. This, whether you invest it early on, or in the middle, or the late years, you’re going to end up putting in time and energy right or suffer pain as a result or success as you go through. And I think that’s truly as amazing how you had that insight and to have the courage right to leave a very successful corporate job. But what was interesting, what you just share it is it you share briefly because it wasn’t about the personal side, when you follow what you’re really intending to do. It has gone very well for you hasn’t.

Arjun Sen 28:18

Yeah, and also if you look at both sides have the same strategy. When my daughter and my son, we talked they after 911 i right away saw where I was going in life is as a 70 year old man, I’ll have two one minute conversations with my daughter every year. That wasn’t what I wanted in life. Which means I had to find the barriers. I had to move those barriers. I had to find the first domino so as you start looking at is both examples are exactly the same. But the only challenge was on the personal life I had to be a self consulting to myself and it was a very painful decision it didn’t come naturally. But again just like the Papa John’s examples once you commit commitment is lifelong. Totally be determined gung ho about that was very important because I was tempted the further I was away from the the corporate world the office started getting worse sorry, better and better. And that was really bad for me because the temptation started going up and I just wouldn’t, I just wanted to be a dad first. Okay,

Carl J. Cox 29:37

so this was not a planned question. But you mentioned this first of all, I love that story. You have an incredible and you have had incredible impact of those around you. In a consulting from a speaking there’s a little bit of wisdom your I believe you said as your grandmother I can’t remember your grandmother your mother shared with you about about being wise. In good times and bad, it, can you share that little part of like, where to where to put your money away because I thought that was a brilliant advice to share share with others.

Arjun Sen 30:09

Yes. So my grandma, I called her at the age of 39 became a widow in India, and this is India 1940s. It was not an easy time for a single woman to raise three kids. She was a traveling salesperson, insurances person, she built a home without a loan. And if you are ever in Kolkata, India, it’s the home You must visit. Because this home is very fascinating. This home was built one room at a time, which means in this house, we have Windows between rooms. And she didn’t have the money to close those vendors. But now you know, we keep them open. And just so later on, I asked my grandma, how did you build this massive home without any loan, she gave me this fascinating advice. She said if you make $1, India, it’s up but I’m translating 25 cents votes to our taxes. Another 25 you right away put to one side, for your future, your retirement. Another 25 cents goes into the future of those you care about that is your children’s education, children’s welfare, all that what’s left is a quarter. Now, instead of living, like you’re earning $1 a month, live the life that you’re earning a quarter a month. And this to me has been such a wise, amazing advice. And during COVID times I really loved and this helped me out because for a lot of us, especially micro entrepreneurs like us, on the speaking side, the income just vanished overnight. But having the discipline of living a quarter life, not $1 life was very price. Very powerful. And thank my mighty my grandma for that incredible advice not she gave, but she lived it and seeing the house every time reminds me of what she did.

Carl J. Cox 32:19

That is wonderful wisdom that you shared it and this has been an awesome discussion. I believe everybody who’s here is going to going to appreciate this. What are some books that you would recommend for our listeners, I hear something in the past or something recent that you’ve read that you and your encourage others to read.

Arjun Sen 32:42

So to me, I just go back to some classics of all times. And again, you know, 80s 90s These were the guys who I grew up Al Ries and Jack Trout. Jack Trout has passed away. And they wrote some incredibly fascinating books. And one of the books I still always go back to is The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing. What is fascinating is the book you can pick up any book, any chapter is just like a micro nugget micro story. And I love that writing style. I always go back to you know, Jack and Al always has me covered. And God gets me the wisdom that I go through. Of course in recent time in a lot of great books have been written in The Tipping Point is such a fascinating book that is there. And of course, my favorite book, which I still haven’t got a chance to read is I forget described Carl, what’s his last name is writing this book is coming out soon. By June, July. And I think that will be my favorite book. And not just me, for a lot of us. What’s that book called Carl?

Carl J. Cox 33:47

like it’s The Seven Sails of Success: How to Navigate Your Strategy with Purpose in Uncharted Waters. And that is very, very kind of you to mention that. Of course, I do encourage you to read Arjun’s books as well. And thank you for that for that. But that’s The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing, that is a classic. And I really believe that those who are listening that haven’t read that it’s one of those there’s some these wonderful, beautiful books that you realize when you read it 300 books are written based on that book. It’s it’s one of those real baseline concepts. So we have been here with Arjun Sen. From ZenMango. Where can people learn more about you,

Arjun Sen 34:28

Arjun? Is Go to ZenMango.com Zen Z-E-N and mango the fruit. That’s it. Perfect.

Carl J. Cox 34:37

All right. Arjun, it has been thank you so much for being on the show today. I really appreciate it. This is truly a pleasure. Thank you again, and baking. Thank you to everyone else who has been listening to the Measure Success Podcast where we’re wishing you the very best at measuring success. Thank you.

Outro 34:59

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