Mark Howard 11:16

Yeah, it’s a bit of a moving target Carl, because, you know, the stock market, stock market has a lot more movement, it’s a lot, generally more volatile. And, as you know, last year was a pretty gangbusters year with all the stimulus that was provided. But the bond markets have grown and historically, the bond market has been roughly three times the size of the stock market, globally. But that depends on where interest rates are because the value of the bond market moves in relation to interest rates, but also when the stock market, so if the stock markets up 30%, then that gap narrows quite a bit. But, you know, with a $1.9 trillion fiscal package that just came and perhaps another several trillion dollars of infrastructure that may come, you know, the debt market is going to keep growing. And it’s not just here, it’s around the world, because the economic scars from this pandemic, are potentially very deep. And most authorities, both fiscal and monetary want to limit those scars. And so they’re gonna throw money at it. And it’s not just in the developed world, it’s also in the developing world. So the bond markets are going to stay big, but they’re generally more boring than the stock market. So that’s the trade off, it’s bigger, but it’s less volatile. In general, there are certainly parts of the bond market like emerging markets and high yield, and some esoteric parts that are quite jazzy. But by and large, not as dynamic or volatile as the equity market.

Carl J. Cox 12:43

And there’s way less people were Is it fair to say there’s way less people working in it, too? I mean, comparatively? Or is it about the same? I this is something I don’t know, I’m kind

Mark Howard 12:52

of curious from your perspective. Yeah, there, there are fewer people. Because Because bonds trade at a notional value that allows you to move you know, 10s of 1000s, or millions of them, whereas equities, particularly individual investors, moving clips of 100, or $1,000, much smaller clips. So you’re right, you can you can trade, you know, the the bond market with a lot fewer people, it’s also become a lot more like quantified. And then lastly, most importantly, the bond market is more of an institutional market. Whereas the equity market is the balance between institutional and individual. So you need more people to support the retail investor than you do to support the institutional investor.

Carl J. Cox 13:42

The beginning when we were preparing for this call, I asked you a question about what’s top of mind, I want to share with me what you talked about, I think it’s really interesting insights.

Mark Howard 13:51

Well, it’s changed since we talked earlier, Carl, so I’m going to I’m hungry. Now. That’s what’s front of mind. The truth of the matter is, we’re in a very interesting time, and I’ve had the benefit of working in the markets for almost 35 years. So I’ve seen a bunch of things come and go, and that narratives, you know, become prevalent. And then fade were a very interesting time now. And in particular, there are a lot of economic and social forces, combining with economic forces on the back end of this pandemic, that are that are creating some important pivots. And shifts are the part of our elected officials both in the state and the federal level. But businesses are being forced to adapt and change not just because of what’s coming out of Washington, but because of demands of shareholders, or boards of directors, and then society and being a parent having a couple of teenage aged kids, the things that they’re seeing and the things that they’re passionate about. So these these social, economic and environmental factors that are all shifting, are not all shifting in tandem. And they don’t have the same impact on me, personally, as I do professionally, or what I do outside of work. So I’m really toggling and adapting to all those while trying to be consistent, both conceptually, but also in my actions. That’s, that’s challenging in a good way. But it requires a lot of thinking, learning about the climate issues, trying to figure out what’s fact, and what’s fiction, trying to rethink some of the things around society and, and social issues that, you know, are not all that comfortable, but I’m trying to relearn and rethink them, and then adapting to whatever the new normal is, in this economy posts, the pandemic, is challenging, both personally and professionally. So that’s, that occupies a lot of space in my head these days.

Carl J. Cox 15:57

And well said, I think is incredible. I think you mentioned the changes that are happening with with very, very real right from you said, from the top, you know, in Washington satins at a local level, but then it is at a different rate, you know, everybody is experiencing sitting for different airlines, I think that’s really interesting insights. You know, there’s a lot of setting this is a tough question to ask, but let’s assume there’s nothing other major again, happening for the next few years. So how long do you think it’s going to take? Will this, quote, unquote, settle down? You know, where there’s going to be something where deals quote, unquote,

Mark Howard 16:35

the new normal? Yeah, you know, Carl, I’m not a crystal ball person, I can talk about the economy, I can talk about markets. You know, when you get into social issues, and medical, environmental issues, I’m outside my realm, but I do think that we’re in a period of adaptation, that’s gonna feel uncomfortable for a while, and hopefully, we don’t see the same type of wildfires and, you know, incredible snowstorms in Texas and other kind of natural disasters that, that force us to continually change, due to what many call climate change. You know, if those things settle down, then great. But if we continue to see these high impact events around the world, then that’s going to create a whole set of demands for reaction by policymakers and by by corporations that, you know, could be very challenging, so and create the need to tax businesses and consumers and taxpayers in a different way. So it I don’t want to get too deep down that rabbit hole, but it’s it’s a complicated time. Yeah, I think it’s going to stay complicated.

Carl J. Cox 17:50

Yeah, I think that, you know, I think that is, is actually probably refreshing to hear, even though people may not want to hear it, right is that don’t expect calm, right, expect to have continued determinants and trying to deal with those unchartered waters, and navigate through it, I think, is really the key element of success the best, right, but waiting for, quote, unquote, this belief of I wanted to be back in 1995, again, or whatever, whatever time period I was ready human, where they’re like, Oh, this is when time was great. It’s, we’re not going back to it. And it we have some incredible things. So you had this incredible experiences of living in New York City where you have, I mean, there’s more than one I’m going to state here. But there’s there’s four key ones, you actually added one, but you were with, not your present, when 911 took place. In New York City, there was the 2008 recession. You mentioned the hurricane that had hit New York City. And then also, of course, COVID, the pandemic. For you, let’s maybe hit on the business side first, and then go to the purchase side, from the business perspective. What was the most impactful of those four events?

Mark Howard 19:07

You know, it’s, it’s hard because you’re at different levels of your career and different sets of responsibilities in each of them. So I think they all had no profound effect on on business and on people. I think 911 was probably the most dramatic, because it really was a fundamental reset of the global world order. And in a reset of, of many issues, not just geopolitical, but also economic, and then the physical and emotional of New York. I mean, it was just incredibly traumatic, working and living in lower Manhattan for a prolonged period, you know, and the memorials all around this great city. was, was striking and what was so profound about that, and Superstorm Sandy, is that it was it was really quite finite. I mean, there was, of course, you know, planes that hit in Washington and Pennsylvania, but, but the, you know, you can travel as we did to Oregon or other places, and it just wasn’t the same feeling. Whereas with a pandemic, it was natural, right. And even those who didn’t get it in March of 2020, they ended up getting it in August or September, and you know, it became a truly national phenomenon. Whereas, whereas the 911 events, just was really narrowly focused and really traumatic for those who lived through it. And those of us who had children, who we had to, you know, be brave for them and figure out what this meant for them, and we want to move we want to leave, and what does this mean for our career, so I think that was probably the most profound, but all of them, you know, I want to go back to our prior comment, Carl, which was, you know, I don’t think we’re all that different from our parents or grandparents, they’ve also lived through really challenging and uncertain times, you know, whether it’s the 60s in the early 70s, in the Vietnam, whether it’s World War Two, where my father served or, or earlier than that great recession, you know, it’s it’s part of the human condition. And perhaps we’d had a, an easier go of it certain ways. But we’ve also, I think, proven over the last 12 18 months is also very resilient. And if we need to, you know, we need to eat baked beans out of a can, we can do it. And, you know, if you need to build a fire to stay warm, you can do it. And so I think we’re, you know, we’re not that different from our predecessors. And when pushed to the limits, we we rise to the occasion.

Carl J. Cox 21:53

That’s a great insight, and I appreciate to how each of them respectively had its own impact on you personally, and nationally, and in different levels behind it. I going I remember, when I came to visit you and afterwards hit the 911 Memorial, it’s just still I wasn’t even there. But But there is something more unique when you were there there, you know, and you you know, if I’m correct, right, there were the smoke you it was your your blocks, not far away from the event when it took place? Correct. 911 I’m referring to specifically, right. And and there’s there’s something about that being personally there versus being 3000 miles away. Right. And and and so anyways, thank you for sharing that. I think it’s incredible those things and the different levels of impact that it’s had. So let’s flip to the other side, which is the success side, right? How do you let’s talk about this on maybe perhaps a business level, first of all, there’s going to be challenges and trying times. And I’m not looking for secret sauce, so to speak. But I’m looking for more my general perspective, how do you measure success when you’re working with institutional investors and your larger clients? How do you keep that connection with them? So they’re making the right decisions? And you feel like you’re moving your organization to the right place?

Mark Howard 23:20

Right? Well, I think you gave a shout out to my wife Marion earlier, and I’m going to give her a second shout out because she, she has taught me an axiom that I think is very applicable, which is that is, you know, what is measured matters. And I think what you and and, and 40 Strategy does around KPIs is critically important. And that’s what I use to measure success. We as a, as a French firm, with a very strong quantitative backbone, we have a metric for almost everything that we do, as well as metrics for the things we don’t do. And so we’re very fastidious in terms of tracking by an inquiry and client outreach and duration of client connectivity. And when we have a conference call, or we have a conference of some sort, but there are obviously more tangible things, whether it’s revenues or profitability, or you know, hit rates on things. There are a lot of different metrics, but there’s no substitute for, you know, empirical metrics in my mind, and I think it’s, it’s not easy. Sometimes it’s a little it can be embarrassing to create the data capture that then exposures where you’re not succeeding as much as you would like to but it’s critically important to improve it. And you can’t really look in the mirror if you’re not measuring what you’re supposed to be doing. So I think TPR KPIs are very simple part of it. We also we do use intangibles because I think in a service business sometimes there are intangibles that matter. Our clients aren’t Always going in the same direction that we’re going, right? We have big clients who may be very important, but they’re seeing outflows in their portfolios. So they can’t trade with us at that point in time. And so it doesn’t mean I’m failing, if they’re not trading with us, it means that they’re not available. So there are other things that we do in periods where they may not be active, or our offering isn’t necessarily aligned with their their demand. And so you know, that that’s where you the human touch comes in and making a phone call asking about their kids playing around the golf, there are a lot of different things you can do. And in particular, what I like to do is go beyond the obvious and understand our key clients, what are some of their outside interests, and showing interest in their outside interest? That creates a level of connectivity that I don’t think my competitors do? So please don’t tell them.

Carl J. Cox 25:53

I loved how you brought Measure What Matters. One of the books that sitting back here by john Doerr, I think is, is true, you know, once you once you measure these key elements of things, but you mentioned elements of How to Win Friends & Influence People along the way there too. You know, when you when you do care, and spend that extra time of caring about who you’re with, who you’re connected with, they’ll care more in return about what you’re doing. And it’s not, not that why you do it, but they just do right because of your show. So I appreciate you sharing that I think it’s something, especially in the virtual world, trying to make efforts to do that create those connections are so incredibly important. So you are I remember, of course, it has been a kind of non travel period right now. But at some point, it’s going to kick back up again, you’ve had to travel around the world and meet with clients at a local level. Do you on a personal level, keep up your energy. So you’re passionate about what you’re doing on a regular day to day basis.

Mark Howard 26:57

So I was really fortunate my initial, actually my second employer to participate in a private in a initiative called The Energy Project run by a guy by the name of Tony Schwartz. And I learned an awful lot from Tony and his colleagues at The Energy Project. And I learned that, that, you know, my brain and my body are kind of a finite resource and that I need to, I need to focus on my energy, and there are different things that I can do to maximize my energy. And, you know, as silly as that sounds, sleeping is one of them. So I actually am pretty, pretty careful about making sure I get the right amount of sleep to maintain my energy. I also need exercise, I’m not in as good shape as you are. But I I do, I do like to get a lot of exercise. And I like to do diverse exercise, you know, a variety of things that that helps to keep my brain and my body in sync. And laughter and fun are critical to me to having the balance to think clearly. And so I tried to mix it up but but maximizing my energy if I think about it from an energy standpoint, and the things that drive energy, having a good diet, having the right amount of exercise, getting good sleep. And, and also, you know, incorporating laughter into my routine, whether it’s watching TV show or going to a comedy club, or, or whatever, watching silly things on YouTube is a good way of clearing my head, then the other thing that I would say is that about keeping it up, is being really careful about distractions. At work, my colleagues have four or five monitors in front of them, I only have two, I intentionally don’t like having a lot of screens open. Because my the way your brain works, and I learned this from Tony, is it goes up and down up and down every time you switch from my email to my Bloomberg to my cell phone back to the email to a phone call. So, you know, you got to think about brain efficiency. And distractions are really problematic going and doing email. Four times an hour is not very efficient. So I try to be thoughtful about that. I’m not always you know, I’m not always perfect. I do eat doughnuts from time to time. And but I try.

Carl J. Cox 29:19

I love the last part. I mean, first of all, that’s great. I really interesting you actually got specifically trained on this from energy. And that’s not a common response. And I hear but I thought it was the distraction part is really interesting and what has happened with with our devices that we have today. I’m actually taking a course from Darren Hardy, The Compound Effect right now, and I have somebody else I’m working well as well on this and it is Marty By the way, who’s who’s while we’re helping each other out and be accountable. One of things I’ve done in my own phone is actually deleted. LinkedIn, Facebook, And Instagram, off my phone. And it’s amazing how much less I go to it now. The only thing I’ve even done is I’ve taken it. So my text message, it doesn’t make everybody of a family happy. I only get them and when I click on it, it’s amazing how much less distracted I am. In how much more focused I could be in doing what I’m supposed to be doing, especially during the day. And but even when trying to be present at home, which person my wife recliner gear, you know which person I am? That’s a different question. But I love that distraction element and trying to get rid of them is so read on that. So let’s Mark, I want to I would love to keep chatting to talking, we’re at the end of our time here. Thank you so much. It’s been great insights, I’m so much looking forward to we get back to our family reunions, again, of connecting when when the pandemic elements have gone by and then risks and concerns have been removed. But one of the things I like to ask all our audience members is what is some books that you could recommend to our audience, whether that be audio books, or physical books, or, and or or something recent or long term that you’d recommend for our audience?

Mark Howard 31:14

I think that’s a neat question, I’m going to share something that’s fairly new. It’s called Accountable: The Rise of Citizen Capitalism that I brought. And the authors are Michael O’Leary and Warren Valdmanis. And they’re a couple of really thoughtful people who have recognized and I think, many others have done the same, some of the limitations of capitalism as we know it, and, and the intersection with how our democracy has evolved. And I haven’t read the whole book, so I can’t, I can’t give it my full throated recommendation, but I’m really enjoying it so far. And it means it’s thought provoking. And it’s written by really smart people who understand the business world. But also, we’re trying to make the business world a little more adaptable and responsible.

Carl J. Cox 32:12

That’s good. I have not heard that one. Thank you so much for that. That’s something I will pick up based on your recommendation there. So, Mark, thank you so much, once again, for being on this. We’ve been talking with Mark Howard. And where can people learn more about you?

Mark Howard 32:27

Feel free to watch me on YouTube or Bloomberg TV I usually doing market related commentary there once a month or so. But also, feel free to send me an email at the address mmjm2@gmail.com.

Carl J. Cox 32:47

Mark, thank you so much for your time. Thank you listen to the Measure Success Podcast, and we’re wishing all of you the very best at measuring your success.

Outro 32:59

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